brent metcalfe excommunicated brent metcalfe excommunicated

Afraid that Brent would go public with the contradictory information, the LDS church terminated him as a member. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! Very informative. "BoMor" is a contraction preferred by Brent Metcalfe, who edited the book in which this paper appeared, and who likewise does not believe in the historicity of the Book of Mormon -- Metcalfe was exxed I think sometime after the infamous September Six. Wouldnt it have been more humorous to wait until *after* the issue was mailed out before bringing the Metcalfe is Butthead acrostic to the attention of FARMS authorities? My curiosity was piqued by something Brent briefly alluded to. Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. Perhaps it has something to do with the frightening and daunting implications of this inconvenient truth. When discussing some of the details surrounding the Book of Abraham, he mentioned the Tale of Onidas and Kitumen. I have never heard of that before and cannot find anything about it. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? Brent Metcalfe, Sue's husband of 23 years, is doing everything he can to support both Sue and Samantha. Simply put, I think JSs BoAbr project is an example of JSs *sincerity*, not his fraudulence. @BHMetcalf. So sorry Maxine! Now that the new Netflix documentary Murder Among the Mormons has come out, it also validates the important witness that Brent was in this event. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. A scene from John Dehlin's upcoming disciplinary council, probably. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Privacy Policy. Doxey denied asking about Metcalfe. The Book of Abraham was a problem on my mission too, but we had to just ignore that issue, and wait for an answer. Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. Our interview continues tonight!!! It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. And I went through a very long phase of just wishing that I had never been born.. That makes more sense. Is there going to be a part 3? Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). Daniel Kahneman speaks in terms of efficient Thinking Fast biases that unconsciously deploy the WYSIATI (What-You-See-Is-All-There-Is) heuristic, which has proved itself sufficiently satisficing for selection. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. He was basically threatening his entire existence. (paraphrased and likely not the actual quote from Murder Among the Mormons, Netflix documentary). Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. brent metcalfe excommunicated. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). :). She also noted that after JS none of the preceding Church leaders really got what he was trying to do/teach in this realm. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. Leave a Reply Cancel reply. I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. I can hardly wait for the rest! We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. Truth or legend? What advice does Brent have for aspiring Mormon historians? From your perspective, what are the 3-5 best pieces of evidence for the historicity of the bom? pigella miraculous ladybug power. If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. So yes, Brent, please comment on this phenomenon. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. Pardon me for not commenting on LDS church history, but to be honest Ive read it or heard it all and have moved on. It was torturous turning out essays to suit a particular lecturers preferences in order to gain high marks. This is one that definately left me wanting more. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. I went to BYU and graduated with honors but I did everything I could to get out of reading or to read beforehand what I could be asked to read out loud. Elbert once quipped, The Open Door Club has become the 7th East Press!. Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. Ive heard there might. Robert Ritner, Egyptologist, wrote a recent book the Joseph Smith Papyri in which he acknowledges your encouragement for that project. It is his sixth season overall with the Cyclones after serving as the volunteer assistant for the 2017-18 season. Contributions. Sandra was criticized by some Mormon Stories listeners for not being as critical of Christianity as she was of Mormonism. I was pronouncing words instead of just reading them. The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Thanks! Brent Metcalf was a bad dude in high school. One question though, has Hoffman done any interviews since being in prison? What historical issues does he think are most worthy of exploration, and how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources? [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. All rights reserved. Its a band called The Lower Lights. Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. Your account of why you didnt pursue a doctorate was extremely touching to me as I absolutely admire those that can do the tedium of historical research. The triplet Egyptian Alphabet manuscripts and the bound Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language also elaborate the Katumin narrative. I am still cringing from the realizations about the lack of discernment and the deliberate efforts on the part of the GAs. John and I are just trying to align our schedules, so expect parts 3 & 4 soon. Ive followed Mormon stories for several years now and listed to most of the episodes and this interview with Brent Metcalfe is in my top 5 MS podcasts. Im not excited anymore. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? The time has come to really dig in and discover our true human beginnings without religious bias. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. They have proven time and time again that that is all they care about. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Follow @BHMetcalf. This is one of my all-time favorites. What do you think about the DCP/Hamblin FARMS implosion? Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. We have to learn to get along and improve our conditions wherever we are and it is a much more difficult task because of all the varied belief systems prevalent in the world. Download . What an amazing life Brent! After years of palling around with anti-Mormon apostates (e.g. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. "[10], Naifeh, S., & Smith, G. W. (2005). I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. The portion you quoted is an example of what I dub a conversion epiphany (as I mentioned in the podcast). The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. Please let us know. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Growing up in the Eleventh Ward, you seemed very different than the Terry, Larry and Scott group. Quote: More recent studies conducted by Professor of Anthropology Richard B. Stamps, of the Michigan Historical Museum, indicate that the artifacts were made with contemporary tools. Seventh East Press. Learn how your comment data is processed. Brent Lee Metcalfe is an independent researcher and writer of the Latter Day Saint Movement. The interview was superb and the insight into this extraordinary life was gifted. [] author and editor of numerous articles and two Signature Books titles, was interviewed by John Dehlin for the Mormon Stories podcast recently. This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. What are your views on how the Book of Mormon was created? Yes, please delineate with a rough timeline, recent vs. re-exposed critiques of the books. I dont agree with all the conclusions of your research but the research is a gift to all of us. Brent, thanks so much for sharing your tender moments as well. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. In it, Metcalfe himself wrote an essay that was the first to advance the Mosiah priority theory, or that Joseph Smith began dictating the Book of Mormon from the Book of Mosiah. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Coming! Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? My question to Brent is during or after authoring/editing New Approaches to the Book Mormon, did he have other or similar spiritual experiences that confirmed the historical facts (which may be viewed as counter experiences to those earlier in the church)? The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! So glad Brent. Or if you have any thoughts on this John? Its a pity Joseph Smith couldnt sit them all down for a good coming-to-Jesus admonishing. It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. I remember being troubled by the lack of divine discernment that the brethren have/had. You guys at MS are doing great. Thanks, John and Brent! This is definitely a not-miss interview. And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. dave davies wife. Wow John, what an interview. I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. Hibbard later had a dream in which he again. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? Brent Metcalf (born July 14, 1986) is an American freestyle wrestler who formerly competed in the international circuit for the United States of America. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. I am quite sure, that film is no longer shown. Like I said they were casting that net as wide as they could get it. Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? Youre one of the few secular critics of the church that can offer a really long perspective on challenges to Mormonisms truth claims. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? Brent, thank you so much for doing this interview! I could read fine in private but the social damage was done and anxiety overwhelmed me every time. I wouldnt presume that Brendt is unaware of this and that his worldview does not follow from this hes well read. Oh. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? this was fascinating, and I havent got to part 2 yet! Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. Thank you for this very interesting presentation. In 1539 he was elected as an MP for the rst time and was appointed to serve in the King's Privy Chamber. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. Iowa's Brent Metcalf wrestles with Iowa State's Mitch Mueller during their 149 pound match Friday, March 19, 2010 in the quarterfinal round of the 2010 NCAA Division 1 Wrestling Championships at . See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. After all, he was the one who had introduced him to Steve Christensen, the first of Marks victims. They are in a tough spot. And great questions John. I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. If Catholicism were ultimately true, for example, then in the final accounting its dogmatic claims would not be hamstringing- they would serve as a clarifying lens through which to analyze historical questions, a lens which helps the believing scholar from wasting his time investigating a false path. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." But Brent seems to do just the opposite. What has been the ramifications to your excommunication among other family members? Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report Just curious if there is a link that has information about what they discovered and why they were ex'd or disparaged. I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA! Two more parts (3 & 4) to come. Mark Metcalfe Project Manager - Heavy Lift Division at Western Mechanical Electrical Millwright Services Ltd. Kitchener, Ontario, Canada 500+ connections Were they watching us? On the term translation, JS promoted his ancient texts as translations in the traditional sense. Thank you. In fact, it may just be possible that I stood right next to Brent during our official kick off meeting, when Elbert invited his brother Lyle to give us all a magic show. Why didnt Mr. Metcalfe publish his long-anticipated book disproving the Book of Abraham? Can you offer any insight to this? Post-Vatican II a renaissance of sorts occurred in scriptural exegesis (for example, scholars no longer felt compelled to affirm the priority of Matthew and they began reassessing the synoptic gospels and John more critically). !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. Release Calendar Top 250 Movies Most Popular Movies Browse Movies by Genre Top Box Office Showtimes & Tickets Movie News India Movie Spotlight. Also, make sure your second recording matches the first. The gift of your ADHD shines. Roger that. And much was going on. [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. My good friend Matt Christensen digitized the 7th East Press and was kind enough to allow Signature Books to make it available on their incredible digital library. 2) It seems to me that most of the critiques in the 21st century arent recent developments, rather they already existed for sometimes decades (credit to Brodie and the Tanners for that). Rude Dog Never fear! Andrew, Joseph Smith dictated the story of princess Katumin and her regal father Onitas to his scribes Oliver Cowdery and William W. Phelps, who recorded the tale in two small notebooks. Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. Great interview. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Excellent question. Jn I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. I havent listened to MS for several years now, but with Brent being interviewed I couldnt miss this, and I wasnt disappointed. This was an awesome interview. We had some technical difficulties. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. And how was it working with Mr. Ritner? Unfortunately, much of the middle portion of the interview was lost due to technical issues that were only discovered after we completed the interview. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. Or at least, Lets Take this Puppy Down.. Ron Priddis was my friend, and had recruited me to be a writer. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? Were they hiding behind Christensen for some reason? 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). Once you start to deconstruct Mormonism, the next step is Christianity, and then the existence of a god, or not There are plenty of stops along that road to hang your hat, but the fastest growing belief system around the existence of god, is atheism. No one believed that any one person could do all of those forgeries and build those bombs, and kill those people . It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. Cookie Notice And theres no way that you can change it. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. I would include many of the arguments given by the critics as well. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. Im pretty sure I was standing next to Maxine. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thank you Brentyou are certainly one of the true Saturdays Warriors Thank you Mormonstories.org I am glad I came across your website! It was stillbecause it all drove from the incredibility of the whole thing. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. Yes, because remember that the paradigm speaking through Mikes words is not just representative of him. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. Now, alas, Im left to figure out why I dont personally do more to address the real-life hell that is meanwhile breaking loose in the world, now that I understand also that no gods exist to help us. I may have a chance to look for it next week, but Im not promising anything. How would it be different from other books that deal with the same subject? Is it paramount to understand all of these religious histories and come to terms with them or, Brant for people like you and me, would it be better to turn our talents toward uncovering and deciphering Gobekli Tepe, a stone temple complex built 12,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age in Turkey, built by the Watchers of the Book of Enoch and the Anunnaki gods of Sumerian tradition? If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising.